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Enthusiast
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎04-22-2017
Message 41 of 193 (1,268 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

This is really terrible. I am on the verge of moving to a Sony a7rii camera, but I have taken up astrophotography and it is obvious the firmware has degraded the quality of images.

 

I'm surprised someone hasn't filed a lawsuit yet, given how quickly such suits come about and, if nothing else, because it would force Sony to do something.  Every image I have seen shows clear degradation and they shouldn't be messing with the RAW files anyway.

 

Guess I will hold off on converting to Sony after all.  I was really excited to be moving that way and had planned to order this coming week after seeing if they come out with a Mark 3 edition tomorrow.  Even already ordered a T-ring to connect the new camera to my telescope.

ADF Specialist
Specialist
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎04-18-2017
Message 42 of 193 (1,263 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

I'm in the exact same position as you ewerickson, looking to convert to Sony, but this is a deal breaker

Expert
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎01-19-2017
Message 43 of 193 (1,255 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

Three things that I think are worth considering...

 

1. It would appear to me that bringing an action under consumer protection legislation would be one possibility, at least in the country where I reside, based on the way that Sony has materially reduced the performance of our cameras by introducing a significant change to the way that long exposure files are manipulated, and particularly given that (i) no warning was provided with the firware upgrade as to the changes that would result and (ii) that the firmware upgrade is not reversible. However, I would view that as very much a last resort.

 

2. I think that it would be much better for Sony to front-foot this issue, and engage in a meaningul discussion with endusers - all we can do is to invite them to make contact and discuss the technicalities that we are talking of, in confidence if need be. I for one am very happy to make example images available that display the degradation in night-sky phots that their changes have caused. In addition, I'm also happy to make suggestions as to how this issue might be resolved, e.g., through combining this effect with the long-exposure noise reduction option, so that it occurs only if deliberately turned on. All kudos to Sony if they were prepared to pursue this.

 

3. And finally, I'm very happy to acknowledge that in all other respects, my Sony A7RII suits my uses probably better than any other camera I've ever owned - but that is what makes this completely avoidable degradation of performance for one particular and important use so utterly frustrating.

 

-John

Specialist
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎06-16-2015
Message 44 of 193 (1,150 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

It's a real shame that Sony do not appear to be listening.

 

Spoutnicko, those are great examples you posted of the night sky and the Montparnesse Tower.

 

This previous thread has been going for some time now but without response: https://community.sony.com/t5/Alpha-NEX-Cameras/Star-eater-in-bulb-mode/td-p/508740

 

Sony have made this a whole lot worse with firmware updata 3.30 on the A7Rii.   Don't apply upgrade 3.30 on the A7Rii if you might ever use the camera for astrophotography because that gives the A7Rii the problem from 4sec onwards, not just bulb mode like the other Sony cameras.

 

To be safe, don't apply any upgrade to any of Sony's cameras in case they pull the same stunt again

 

All requests to Sony have so fallen on deaf ears - no-one at Sony has demonstrated the least interest in the problem.

 

Mark

Enthusiast
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎04-24-2017
Message 45 of 193 (1,073 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

Wow, I've been considering A7R2 for some time.  But this basically makes it unusable for me.

Specialist
Posts: 24
Registered: ‎04-17-2017
Message 46 of 193 (1,078 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

firware wise, the issue should be easily to settle: the two modes are already present in the camera, so no need to code anything, just to change the parameters of when it is activated.

 

the best would be, in the long exposure noise reduction menu, to get 3 settings instead of just ON/OFF (with SPATIAL FILTERING ACTIVATED IN BOTH CASES):

 

- OFF --> NO SPATIAL FILTERING OF ANYCASE

- SIMPLE/FAST --> STAR EATER / SPATIAL FILTERING ON (just to avoid hot pixels for some photographers that might prefer to lose some resolution and have not hot pixels)

- ON --> TAKING A DARK FRAME AFTER INITIAL SHOT, + NO SPATIAL FILTERING (having star eater activated like it is now in this mode just makes no sense)

 

the silence of Sony toward us is becoming really deafening...

Specialist
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎04-22-2017
Message 47 of 193 (1,047 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

[ Edited ]
That's a great suggestion above!! ...Sony  - please, do yourself and us a favor and listen this ...
Apprentice
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎04-16-2017
Message 48 of 193 (916 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

ok guys, I read this over here [1]:

 

"For many years Nikon DSLRs had a reputation for not being a suitable for stellar photography because of a built-in noise smoothing that affected even Raw files, eliminating tiny stars along with noise. Raw files weren’t raw. Owners worked around this by turning on Long Exposure Noise Reduction, then when LENR kicked in after an exposure, they would manually turn off the camera power."

 

Anyone tried this Nikon workaround?

 

O btw Sony: congratulations on making the same mistakes Nikon made YEARS ago! It's not too late to solve them ;-)

 

[1] https://amazingsky.net/2015/08/27/canon-vs-nikon-for-astrophotography/

Specialist
Posts: 20
Registered: ‎04-22-2017
Message 49 of 193 (907 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

Apprentice
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎04-16-2017
Message 50 of 193 (893 Views)

Re: star-eater algorithm in Bulb-mode shots - please offer alternative

too bad ... thnks!

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