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Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 31 of 51 (900 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

If any readers here recall a moment from the movie "Fight Club", where an insurance company rep breaks down the average law suit cost vs the cost of a product recall, and explains that this is a calculation that governs company direction.....

 

The time that it is taking for Anyone At Sony to get in contact with me (exclusion applied to forum mods here, who do the generic 'reach out' with no follow up...) can only be surmised as Someone at Sony is 'running the numbers'.

 

Caluclating how much of a threat I am ( a complete unknown as I am keeping my profession out of this ), vs what their actual ownership is for the problem at hand.. etc..

 

That I have in years previous reached out to Sony and suggested to get my daughter as a Sony Ambassador (as her art, singing, acting skills are well beyond her actual age... ) her present hobbies including making video games - we even had use for a Sony camera for blogging/kickstarter videos and would be in a position to show any Sony tablets or 'tech' used as part of a streamlined production process.

 

In fact her multimonitor (landscape and portraiture) desktop setup featuring WACOMS, comprised of top tier parts (Dell XPS etc); with supplemental equipment being an iPad Pro (with Pencil) and various Note phones (as small portable WACOMS); her ability to show off features of Sony tech and show how her creative lifestyle is supplemented with Sony creative technology.

Hence why I had suggested to Sony yonks back that if they just gave me a super cheapie WiFi camera (at the time about half the value of the part they lost), my daughter could use her antiquated iPad2 in many and varied ways.....

 

At the same time I was pitching this I was working with a programmer buddy whose success with Unity put us in a position to render a game that we realised could have been made for Sony platforms (Vita and VR) and offer 60 frames per second stereoscopic vision, something at the time was a bugbear for Sony; not wanting to appear that the PSPro would be needed for true VR at a cost effective pricepoint (eg to run on present hardware).

Whilst initialy the game had been developed for Android as a target platform- the lead story/script writer and the head programmer wanted Vita/dedicated controls. Nintendo was an option at this point, and this was where I suggested we will see what negotiations we can make with Sony to perhaps lock in an exclusive... (the game itself being the sort of title that could generate platform sales and would make excellent bullet points on powerpoint slide pushing Sony VR)..

 

So whilst Sony try ineffectively to settle things 'out of court' when their hand is eventually forced; what they lose on the way; long term customers, business partners and positive promotions... is worth much more than a few dollars. Certainly more than a cheap point and shoot camera.

 

Just on purchases I didn't throw Sony in the last couple of years, the profit on those sales would have netted them vastly more than the cost of the camera.

 

The sillyness in all this being that Sony Corporate and Company Philosophy suggest that just treating everyday customers, with no benefit other than making the initial sale,,.. is of such high importance that all sorts of Pledges and Promises to deliver Exceptional Service and Exceed Expectations...

 

Where is any of that?

 

What I see is a large timeframe of no communication with a consumer trying to damage control a situation for the company.

For my efforts to assist Sony? Frustrations and misrepresentations of the company and much time wasting on my part.

Three weeks ago I started a process of reaching out -one last time- to give Sony a chance to recover this relationship, (or suffer the consequences...) and they are just trying to calculate what is the minimum they can give.

 

If they did that in a timely fashion (say, years ago) then we wouldn't be in this mess.

We've gone past that window in time, or opportunity, I propose- based on the present nature of this multinational, with teams of people employed at all levels to deliver customer service, and after sales service, and difficult situation service....

They have front of house, in field reps, web page teams (facebook and here), they have so much money invested in not having happen exactly the situation we find ourselves in.. and when the customer goes out of their way to extend a 'whats up?'; they blow me off with the full force of a gale, nay, hurricane.. 

 

And on an individual basis, when things are this difficult; I question just how many others are being excruciatingly dealt with by Sony in this manner.

 

As they believe it is profitable to draw out and antagonise customers until actual legal action is started (and then they roll over instantly and play nice...).

Ethically I need to have awareness about this raised!

If not with Sony execs, (who can create change), then the whole of the web, and world at large (to not support unethical business practices and products).

 

Sony do make great stuff and have the service channels to be top tier.

This isn't my first difficulty with Sony, in fact- finding an old DeePee review thread written by my private persona (Whitedragem); lists back in 2010 my excitement to get my Sony TX5- and even states the product being so great that I am buying from a company I won't deal with.. 

rereading that thread reminds me of all the times I have had Sony products die ONE WEEK OUT OF WARRANTY. 

And for all the difficulties of claiming 'expected product life' warranty, I have simply moved on..

 

All the same, being a professional and in the public eye I never take the negative viewpoint, and have seldom, if ever, painted Sony negatively in the public space.

I actually believe most situations/products have a positive side that makes better press; myself a firm believer in 'tell a great story and everyone feels great'.

 

I honestly do not know how to progress with Sony in this matter- I am actally unable to get them to play ball!

 

 

Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 32 of 51 (873 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

[ Edited ]

I started this thread with one intention and hoped for one of two possible things to happen from the very existence of it:

 

1)to raise awareness with Sony there is an important case outstanding to which it publicly promotes it is assisting with (which, whilstever this thread remains; clearly still hasn't happened)

 

2)asking the question "what are general timeframes that people go through in trying to get in touch with Anyone At Sony"

 

 

 

 

Having attempted quite vigourously to establish meaningful communique; I wonder why Sony continue to delay, needlessly, the process of me reaching out to ask a few questions.

-I established that one of these questions is simply to any accountable person at Sony; whether they stand by the companies present direction with regards to my 'case'?

 

I can only surmise that they must. They stand by it by being ever vigilantly silent.

They do this role very well, and should be applauded for it. Myself I would have been baited into at least an enquiry with the customer to find out why they are foaming at the mount and ranting.... And I am pretty disciplined with these things, often going against social norms - I recall, as a highlight of my willingness to not follow social convention when it serves no purpose; denying a lady her request to hold my young child, based on the fact that she was my housemates Bee-Dee-eSs-eM sl-ave and seperate to that, a crazy woman!

It was an awkward social moment where everybody could see my reason for not sharing my most precious possesion/ yet no one spoke about the instance; it was socially just not the way things are done,.. most requests to hold small infants being answered with a 'sure'/ 'here you go'.. just give me five minutes to go to the loo/make a coffee/ tribally scream to the moon from the privacy of the backyard- 'be back in a moment.'...

 

 

Several succesful points of follow up and initiated contact with Sony Service centres and FOH over the last week confirm that Sony totally know who I am and that my case is 'ongoing'.

Independants making enquiry are simply told the old line 'the customer needs to supply us further info' (the same lies that had facebook team suspend my account/enquiry with Sony until I go to further effort to 'reopen' it..)

 

Even livechat staff given no specifics to my enquiry, surmise that I am the person with whom their seniors are assisting (no!;they 'escalated' to a customer solutions team, weeks ago, who haven't gotten in contact).

 

So, glad to be of humourous reflection for Sony staff 'at the watercooler'; this statement suggesting that Sony workers actually derive mirth and entertainment from denying me any reach out to Sony...

 

I have listed here that I give up.

 

I really have.

 

I simply let Sony take its merry time with this one.

 

Each team I give appropriate timeframes (albeit small given the outstanding nature of the issue) in accordance with legislation that governs consumer affairs and dispute resolution.

 

To this end, I forsee quite a lot more stepping stones, until some senior agent or any member of Sony Corporate decides to take things into their own hands, assuming responsibility and determined to minimise 'comeuppance'.

 

And when that professional person finally speaks to me, professionally; I will likely gibber like an idiot based on not remembering a time before being reduced to 'gibberishness'.

 

Remember when you argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.

 

 

 

Sony,.. I am still here!

Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 33 of 51 (852 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

[ Edited ]

Alrighty; had my 'morning coffee', and am on a keyboard (shock and awe),.. so whilst I will keep my daily rant brief, I expect this should prove an easier read than using an ipads on screen keyboard as a typing platform.

 

 

Intrinsic worth.

Manifestation of energy ("energy flows where attention goes")

Time management...

 

If I cannot show the worthwhileness in addressing my concerns, and the value in doing so in a timely manner, then I can understand why Sony would not deal with me.

 

I understand when an obstacle looms ahead of us, we have a decision to make.

Sony attempting to circumvent an 'obstacle' by ignoring it and hoping it will go away does not inspire.

Sony does itself no favours when showing, extrinsically, the methods by which it operates- being ineffective and of the lowest calibre.

 

I know that with the decision to 'tackle' said obstacle (deal with me); Sony would start a turn around in events that would prove very meaningful.

 

And not just to me... 

This case isn't soley about me.

It ironically isn't even about a lost Camera part...

 

It is the perfect highlight of how company structure, training, and ethos affect the 'bottom line'.

 

The two natural flows from here are a path of negativity; from which nothing worthwhile might evolve.

Or a path towards accountability, and ultimately; positive growth.

Positive growth in terms of company perception in the public space.

Positive growth with team building and internal systems.

Positive growth in acknowledging that contact with customers is a benefit.

 

Heck industry analysis shows the value in having a customer enquire about a product or service is valuable.

Many businesses all over the world are trying to figure out the best ratio of advertising budget (to generate enquiries), and channeling monies into R&D (research and development) to garner interest or competitive advantage.

 

Many businesses come to learn that maintaining existing customer base is the 'fish in a barrel' or easy market.

Generally made up of people who have invested time and interest in products and services already.  Possibly made up of positive experiences.

 

Most businesses also have learned the adage that we do not compete on price or product, but on customer service.

In an ever moving market, where bricks and mortar stores are generally giving way to online retailers (who have much less operational costs, and therefore potentially lower pricepoints for equivalent products), customer service is the new frontier, or metric, to get right.

 

Sony Corporate know this.

They have looked at the statistics (it is their job to pre-empt trends and 'be ahead' of the game), and have written company objectives (CSR Reports) to target the most crucial aspects of business development and maintenance.

 

Given the 'chapters' (in the CSR Report) on Customer Service focus.. with terms like 'exceeding customers every expectation', and 'rapid resolution process',.. we know that Sony want to do the right thing (they have to out of accountability to their shareholders).

 

If I have to reach out to board members to tell them things they already know, this is embarrasing for all parties.

This isn't acknowledging the human spirit, or the philosophy that Sony first begun with.

 

Excellence is Sonys' middle name.

 

So stop signing 'X' on the balance sheet. It just doesn't represent fairly what we know can be achieved.

 

AAS want to talk?

 

<edited to amend an error>

Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 34 of 51 (815 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

Coupla days.. Beautiful... (Con the fruiterer, Comedy Company, Eighties Aussie TV shows; thankyou Mark Mitchell)

 

 

So yesterday, having followed up on the one piece of Sony Australia correspondence (Telling me to wait for Customer Relations to get in contact with me); having given ten days or more awaiting the promised follow up - I thought I might be able to 'massage it along'.

 

I emailed again the first representative (Sony Pro Australia), who based on a managers recommendation, had passed this along/escalated to another department.. .figuring something had gone wrong, having actually heard nothing at all, and having no actual timeframe to work too....

 

Rapid fire back,.. "they will contact you", and THAT DAY, THEY DID!

 

Unfortunately I was a room away helping people on these discussion boards and I missed the call. (Technically two calls, a minute apart)

 

So I called the number back and got a Sony IVR and figured "awesome - someone is actually going to speak with me!"

 

It was fifteen minutes to close of business, so I wasn't going to push the matter at that time.

 

Today I waited until the last hour of the day, and having not had a follow up call, figured 'what the hey', onus on me.. standard operating procedures as I have come to learn.. so I called them.

 

After a moment choosing all the generic options on the automated response system, getting an actual person, and handing them my crucial details, they checked the computer logs, and informed me someone from Sony Customer Relations would like to speak with me.

Warm transfer, polite introductions,.. then the onus on me to confirm they have the right case notes in front of them; asked me to explain the situation. (This could go in two directions I am thinking- either a brief confirmation that I am a person they are 'looking for' , or generic Sony Front of House style reparte where I tell them my Grandmothers preferences for bubbly drinks)

 

So I say right of the line.. "I suppose you need me to qualify that you have the right person.. " 

I then go on to ask for what reason they have gotten in contact with me (given I have literally eight reach outs presently with Sony, five of which have promised call backs).

It was the Sony Pro agents' escalation.

 

A very long call that ended due to close of business hours, with no resolution put in place.

I did reask whether I could have a contact detail for someone at Sony, like the process I started three weeks ago set out to achieve.

The agent wanted some time to review the case further to see if they could come up with a fair arrangement.

We had to do that because I dismissed their offer of a further potential discount if I bought 'very specific' parts. I explained I really did  think the days of getting me to spend money with the company as a way to restore the situation was truly past. 

 

Clearly Sony still need to profit or at least 'break even' on a sale to me and whilst I understand this is an honorable objective for looking after shareholders wallets'- that that ship had surely sailed!

 

I even had a chance to tell them of half a dozen times in the last four years that I nearly had made purchases from them as a way of getting closure,..nearly taking up the offer, around the year three mark of this outstanding unresolved situation by buying a TV from an Easter time sale.

 

The only reason I couldn't buy that TV and move on with my life?

The person who was handling my case (to buy an item from Sony Online as a way of being reimbursed for Sony losing my product and hosing away precious hours to tell them so!!..) - to give the company money as a way of being recompensed Sony loosing my product; the salesperson didn't respond to my requests for buying the TV,.. taking over a week to get back to me,.. the Easter sale promotion had finished!

 

And they never acknowledged the enquiry. The email 'yes', the TV, 'no'.

 

This would have had me buying a $1200 TV and Sony still profiting (the discount margin was marginal at best).

I was willing to do it to just get closure and move on with my life...

but then two rounds of Sony people mucking me around and playing 'power games' made me on principle decide there is no way this company is getting one dollar from me until some serious apology/accountability has been shown.

 

Crazy thing is I have never been a person who operates from a paradigm of 'needing apologies'.

Sony have educated me and given me a true paradigm shift.

 

Anyhow as consumers we have to vote with our wallets... there is no way I am supporting this company financially as a way for them to say sorry to me.

Seems wrong, really, doesn't it?

 

Anyhow, the agent hadn't read this thread, and was not really 'up to speed' with the situation.

 

I rolled with it believing that after a week (actually much more than), that they might have put five minutes into the project prior to phoning me.

 

Anyhow, they said they'd sharpen their pencils a bit.

 

I just asked for the contact detail for management,.. same as I have been doing all month.

 

And offered them some more time to figure out if they could give me that....

 

 

 

 

Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 35 of 51 (698 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

So last thing last Friday I call Sony (mentioned in the post above), and person I get (apparently handling my case, and being the one and the same person who had called me the day previous..), who asked for 'more time' to familiarise with the case and 'sharpen pencils'.. has let another ten days go by.

 

Tens days is a long time to a lot of people.

I got really bored of Sony waiting to sort this out, or even truly commence 'sorting this out',.. so I took some initiative; knowing that Sony products are likely to leave me high and dry and without service/support... I bought a lens adapter so I could leave behind Sony products.

Having nice lenses now to play with on a great lil adapter, has reinvigorated my Sony APS-C body,.. 

 

Here are a couple of shots... taken from the last twenty four hours -

no off camera processing performed; straight JPEGs shot from 'manual' mode settings.

 

 

The adapter allows Canon EF glass on Sony Full Frame systems...

Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 36 of 51 (689 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

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Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 37 of 51 (688 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

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Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 38 of 51 (687 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

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Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 39 of 51 (684 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

[ Edited ]

 

Alright that last shot had a wee bit of sharpening applied.

 

 

_DSC77760049.JPG

 

All shots taken on a Canon EF 17-40 L F4, except the church and cat, being a Sigma 28-70 F2.8.

 

Both Lenses are HUGE compared to my NEX E mounts... The pancake (16mm) being 'replaced' with the Canon is kinda amusing, due to the form/functional change of the camera due to size.....

 

The Sigma is kinda too front heavy... I wouldn't want to have to carry it around all day.

Loving the speed of manual focusing; actual manual focusing... 

 

Digital zoom has some range too....

_DSC77760049.JPG

Specialist
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎02-13-2017
Message 40 of 51 (660 Views)

Re: Sony lost factory recalled part (camera), have not been able to be recompensated. In Australia;trying to talk with Sony h

So, being unable to make Sony accountable, all I can do is highlight my expereinces and, hopefully, warn others...

 

The first idea that enters my mind upon 'warning others'; is "what are the alternatives".

 

It is true that for the longest (tech) time, Sony have been the benchmark or, power.

They have discovered a lot of niggles along the way, such that consumers won't buy a high end music player if their phone can sound as good (and so they purposefully cripple products in some silly intention to have us buy more of them....),.. and any business that survived the eighties learned that repeat customers are so essential that we will just plan obselesence to such an extent that top dollar paying customers will need to keep rebuying units.

That is somewhat made moot by todays technology standards; designed with 'feature creep' in mind, and 'ways to make redundant' high end/top shelf parts.

 

So, I am probably not a Sony convert any more; it is fair to say.

Decades ago I moved my hifi kit over to other brands, and, cool innovative tech aside, seldom see reason to pay the 'Sony tax'.

 

'Sony tax' is paying top dollar for parts that bear a company logo.

I have often said to people (considering buying Sony) to make sure that the part they are buying has some sort of technology inside it (unable to be found elsewhere), and that there is something Sony patented involved.

Getting access to the revelations of Sonys' Research and Development is worthwhile...

Paying money for a Sony equivalent part when generic stuff can do it better for cheaper and longer just doesn't seem like good value.

Especially considering Sonys' after sales service....

 

And Sony Asia Pacific are a funny lot.

I literally could not spend money on Sony parts (at retail) when recently looking to a camera purchase.

This I did expect at physcial retail, being their catalogs are usually littered with parts 'on back order'. (It took me nearly a year to secure a 50mm f1.8 NEX lens and many many moons for stock of the HMZ-T3W to be available).

 

Over the last month, having reached out to Sony that I was about to buy a camera part (a nice Panasonic svelte unit with menus and logic that makes sense and is designed for practical usage, in a part that punches so far above its' weight and size classes..)

Sony couldn't be bothered to close down an outstanding case with me (even when they are operating outside of fairtrade and consumer law); which could have kept a customer, perhaps returning them to being a Sony loyalist.

 

Some of the camara shops I went to where I discussed Sony with a lot of staff members, revealed that for some of them, they simply didn't sett Sony cause the Sony Rep never showed up (to booked visits) to arrange product /stock.

Most of them just acknowledged, " 'nice tech'; shame it isn't usable.", with some shops just not selling based on service experience alone....

 

 

I can see why.

 

Heck for the last ten years the amount of customers I had buy Sony kit just for the included Sony software (Picture Motion Browser), which was exceptional for both photo management and manipulation.

That software has been replaced now and the new equivalent (designed as a multi OS shared interface) is like an iOS app version of some powerful desktop publishing software. It just doesn't do what it could do, certainly not in easy ways for the user.

Two days of 'arguing' with this software (trying to do basic things) and I will pass.

It is some of the worst thought out and least usable software I have owned on PC.

Even setting the software to open on double clicking a photo cannot circumvent a horrible interface; not actually opening the photo, but rather a horribly confusing interface that has no interest for Desktop Publishing setups (eg multimonitor etc).

Even the scroll bars are nearly useless, zoom tools often buried or unable to be engaged when doing adjustsments, and the confusing Save options that present every three button clicks, combined with horrible file management etc.. I couldn't even massage this software to being rudimentally useful (just like setting up a Sony Pro camera.. Menus need serious tweaking just to allow a basic level of function/usefulness.).

 

Sony just are not in a feedback loop with their customers.

Being a customer who has attempted to be in contact with Sony- I can certainly share- they would rather make it so hard to get in touch that no actual (unexpected) work has any risk of landing at their feet.

I am sure that they have internal timetables/diaries to adhere to, but I certainly havenever been able to get a booking in one!

 

 

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