Language: English / Spanish
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Do you mean 

welcome to Sony's community site

Get involved! Whether you are here to ask or give help - we are happy you stopped by and look forward to seeing you in the future! Please watch our Welcome Video to get started.

F5 & F55

Reply
Top 40 Artist
starcentral
Posts: 1,008
Registered: ‎11-19-2012

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

To do a fair and proper test guys shoot the same scene in 24p HD as well and tell me you can not see any difference.

Shoot some brick, foilage, or a wool sweater and don't forget to PAN.
Dennis Hingsberg


 
Please use plain text.
Top 40 Artist
ELINER33
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎03-27-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

>>Allistair wrote: Red gets away with it because they window the sensor rather than reading the whole sensor for frame rates above 120fps

 

I would be thrilled if we could shoot 120fps in 4k and avoid the down-sampling/aliasing issue!  

 

I don't understand the "getting away with it" part...the title of this thread is about poor image quality in 1080HD at 120fps,  shouldn't we be a little concerned about that?  And wouldn't it be a fair comparison to point to cameras (like the Epic) that can shoot 120 at 4k without windowing or artifacting?  That's what I want my F55 to do. And I'm not particularly happy that the choice is betweened softened footage in 4k (using the new OLPF) or aliasing artifacts (not using the OLPF).

 

 

 

Please use plain text.
Groovin'
Aplbum1001
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎10-04-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

Must you have the raw recorder on in order the overcrank at 120? Can't seem to get it above 60 with it off.

Please use plain text.
Top 40 Artist
DougMunro
Posts: 234
Registered: ‎04-07-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

I'd like to "get away with" a better solution too, thanks Eliner33 for voicing your shared opinion, I'm with you on that one. Changing speeds quickly and reliably without "issues" is the reality of what we need.

Doug
Douglas Munro CSC
Please use plain text.
Emerging Star
GodGift
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎09-30-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

I cannot post the footage as person on the shot doesn't agree for that I'm afraid. Image looks fine, don't remember the ISO set but we shot it in s-log2 and graded looks amazing. You got normal artefacts as any CMOs camera plus not pleasant pan because it's progressive footage. RED cropped image doesnt look good at all, much more soft than F5 or F55 with OLPF imo.
Please use plain text.
Top 40 Artist
ELINER33
Posts: 98
Registered: ‎03-27-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

>>RED cropped image doesnt look good at all, much more soft than F5 or F55 with OLPF imo.

 

Since I think I'm the one who introduced the comparison to the Epic on this thread, let me be explicitly clear-- the point was, and is, that the Epic simply, reliably, and elegantly shoots 4k at 120fps--no windowing or crop.  And I believe that (all things being possible) our F55's should do the same.  We all know that Red windows their sensor at higher frame rates and that it compromises the resolution of the image...

 

 

Please use plain text.
Top 40 Artist
starcentral
Posts: 1,008
Registered: ‎11-19-2012

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

[ Edited ]

GodGift wrote:
I cannot post the footage as person on the shot doesn't agree for that I'm afraid. Image looks fine, don't remember the ISO set but we shot it in s-log2 and graded looks amazing. You got normal artefacts as any CMOs camera plus not pleasant pan because it's progressive footage. RED cropped image doesnt look good at all, much more soft than F5 or F55 with OLPF imo.

If you haven't shot the same scene in regular 24fps then how do you know what difference is being lost when shooting the same scene in HFR? There is a difference there that is not hard to spot.

 

I tried to raise this point several times now, and yes there is always a chance depending on the scene that the aliasing artifacts are not as apparent (perhaps a close up on person's face, etc.) but do some more testing with and without HFR and it will be very easy to spot unacceptable aliasing and artifacts between the two.

 

This is a serious concern to many people who've already invested in the F5/F55 or planned on it and now are reconsidering. Some people will find it no way possible to mix regular footage in HD in combination with HFR footage with new OLPF - the look of the footage is far too different to mix, and using the OLPF for even regular frame rate footage is just far too softened and resolution reduced.

 

Dennis Hingsberg


 
Please use plain text.
Top 40 Artist
tdavid
Posts: 74
Registered: ‎05-14-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

StarCentral, thank you for posting your 500MB MXF file. It seemed to me that most of the artifacting was occuring in the low light areas (left of note and on the face of the chap on the note) - though the artifacting and noise was noticably less on the more exposed right hand side of the table - would it be possible to shoot in the same note in 'daylight conditions' ? Do you think that may be a worthy comparison?

 

Tom

Please use plain text.
Top 40 Artist
stefankroesbach
Posts: 69
Registered: ‎04-26-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

hi all,

 

just did some tests in 120fps and unfortunately i have to agree that there are artifacts and aliasing in the hi-frequency parts of the image. 

blocking occured with my files at 1250iso as well as 4000 iso.

see the middle corner of the black box on the left of the image, which is supposed to be a straight line...test55.jpg

 

for the OLPF

what i've seen at IBC displayed with the 4k beamer in 240fps was sharp, more organic and not soft at all.

so i presume that the new olpf does what it is supposed to do...

and i personally wouldn't mid a more "organic" picture in either 2k and 4k.

 

guess we will have to wait 'til it's out to really check, but i don't think that it will soften the picture unacceptably - 

 

 

 

Please use plain text.
Top 40 Artist
boghav
Posts: 174
Registered: ‎03-01-2013

Re: HFR XAVC 120p, 1080 HD Blocky Image

Here's a comparison of the same shot-first clip is normal frame rate processed in the AVID at 25% speed, the second shot is captured by the F-5 at 120FPS.  Shirt worn for emphasis, and also note the chart resoultion trumpets.

 

http://vimeo.com/76425243

Richard Boghosian
Bogh AV Productions
USA
Please use plain text.