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Expert
Posts: 2,403
Registered: ‎11-21-2012
Message 11 of 64 (4,181 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

Yep, CineEi then LUTCalc is the way forward... but still, the point remains that it is frustrating that there has never been any clarity on exactly how the cameras differ in terms of the colours they capture... and as Cuervo says, it's very misleading to have an SGamut3 option on the F5 if the camera isn't fully filling that Gamut. Nowhere in the manual is this explained and a user should absolutely not have to work it out for themselves.
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Nez
http://www.videosoul.co.uk/
http://twitter.com/watchvideosoul
Expert
Posts: 998
Registered: ‎01-10-2013
Message 12 of 64 (4,151 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

I'm not sure it's fair to say it's misleading - it is S-Gamut3 (or S-Gamut, same primaries and white point) - ****** an F5 and F55 next to each other under decent full-spectrum light (let's not get into green spikes! ;-) ) and you should get a fairly decent match. It's just that the F55 should be able to pull out some brighter crayons when needed where the F5 will have to make do (though as has been mentioned the F5 crayons are still pretty good!)

 

If they didn't include S-Gamut and S-Gamut3 then it would not be feasable to intermingle the two cameras with a wide-gamut workflow.

 

I do agree that it would be handy to show what the actual nominal gamut difference is, but I can also see why there is absolutely nothing to be gained for Sony in spilling the beans!

 

Ben

Expert
Posts: 161
Registered: ‎10-12-2014
Message 13 of 64 (4,147 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

[ Edited ]

My guess, whether it's a different sensor, or different processing power, both cams deliver Sgamut3. The F55 probably has more chroma headroom over and above Sgamut3 than the F5, which, for all intents and purposes, is meaningless when reducing everything to a Rec2020 space anyway.

Expert
Posts: 2,403
Registered: ‎11-21-2012
Message 14 of 64 (4,137 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

True true, all fair points.
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Nez
http://www.videosoul.co.uk/
http://twitter.com/watchvideosoul
Expert
Posts: 2,403
Registered: ‎11-21-2012
Message 15 of 64 (4,033 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE


NigelAkam wrote:

 

Is there a reason why we can't have center crop as an assignable button?


 

Ok, no assignable button for Center Crop, but switching to it is SO much quicker with the new menu than it was before. Still a few button presses, but MUCH quicker.

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Nez
http://www.videosoul.co.uk/
http://twitter.com/watchvideosoul
Expert
Posts: 414
Registered: ‎04-03-2013
Message 16 of 64 (3,993 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

[ Edited ]

Hi, all,

 

I'm wondering if we're getting our shorts in a knot over confusion of concepts and labels.  Are we confusing gamut and gamma?  And, are the labels for our choices in the Color Space options causing or perpetration that confusion?

 

By my understanding, a gamut is the range of colours that can be captured by a film or image sensor. S-Gamut is the name of the wide gamut of the F55 and F65.  The F5 and its predecessors, F3, F23, F35, F900 and so on, have a narrower gamut.

 

Whereas, a gamma is a reproducible standard for the data received from the sensor or recorded on the film.

 

When we are choosing an option in Color Space, we are choosing a relationship between the sensor data and the reproducible standard.  For instance, S-Gamut/SLog2 is the relationship by which the sensor data is conformed to the SLog2 standard/gamma.  In this example, the data from the sensor for the full S-Gamut range of colours is interpreted into a curve representing 14-stops of dynamic range.  The S-Gamut3/Log3 option is an interpretation of the full gamut as if the sensor had a 15 and a half stop range.  And, as we have been told, The S-Gamut3.cine/SLog3 options takes a subset of the S-Gamut colour range that corresponds to the sensitivity of film and conforms it to the SLog3 gamma.

 

So, when it comes to the F5, the gamut is narrower than S-Gamut.  Its gamut is closer to the range of colours reproducible from the Rec 709 standard, actually fully exploited by that standard.  The range of colours in the F5 sensor's gamut are still within the range of the S-Gamut, a subset of the range, just not the whole thing.  When the S-Gamut3/Log3 option in Color Space is applied, the data from the sensor is interpreted as if it is from the S-Gamut range.  The data is from the S-Gamut range, it's just that the sensor cannot capture the whole range.  When we look at the images from an F55 and an F5, recorded with the S-Gamut3/Log3 color space, processed through a LUT to the Rec 709 standard, we are going to be hard pressed to see the difference on a Rec 709 monitor.  Both cameras can capture that range of colours.

 

I'm guessing that the confusion is coming from the labels.  It seems like a color space choice is promising a full gamut of colours to be recorded according to a specific curve.  But, the gamut in the label really means the range of colours from which the data will be interpreted.

 

I have not seen anywhere whether the gamut of the F5 covers all of the range reproducible from the Rec 2020 standard.  Alister mentions that it hopefully does.  The only way, I think, we can know is if someone can shoot a colour chart representing the Rec 2020 standard with both an F55 and an F5, and then view the results side-by-side on (a) Rec 2020 monitor(s).  Has anyone seen a Rec 2020 standard colour chart?  I haven't, yet.

 

So, I'm not understanding some of the comments above.  Probably, because, they don't fit with my understanding of gamut, gamma and Color Space options.  And, maybe, I'm confused.

 

Anyway, best regards,
Will

Expert
Posts: 77
Registered: ‎11-08-2013
Message 17 of 64 (3,949 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

Nez, gamut of the F5 is 121% of Rec709 according to my testing, the F55 is 167%

Expert
Posts: 1,078
Registered: ‎04-21-2013
Message 18 of 64 (3,940 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

[ Edited ]

Installed flawlessly und looks really, reall good.

 

Thank You very much Peter and the whole developers team.

 

If at all I could criticize anything, that that you can now do the same things:

 

1. In menu.

2. In user menu

3. Via the Buttons left of the display

4. And via the new options menus.

 

That's all great for us, that we have grown with the firmware versions, but it may be confusing to folks that haven't used it before. But for me it's really great!

 

Thanks again! Looking forward to ACES support Smiley Happy

 

__Peter__

 

 

Moderator
Posts: 751
Registered: ‎11-16-2012
Message 19 of 64 (3,929 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

Thanks everyone, good feedback

 

Peter, ACES is coming!

 

Regards

 

Peter

Expert
Posts: 244
Registered: ‎03-05-2013
Message 20 of 64 (3,898 Views)

Re: NEW VERSION 7.01 FIRMWARE

There is no button for centercrop...BUT it is in the quickmenu, which is an improvement ! :-)

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