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Expert
Posts: 305
Registered: ‎11-19-2012
Message 51 of 93 (2,154 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

I was shooting hack 4K for a little bit but bought the official upgrade a couple of weeks ago.  I felt I couldn't stay put on V4 forever without playback or firmware improvements.  Once I paid and started shooting 4K on V5, the pain in my hip pocket went away...

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
www.php.com.au
https://vimeo.com/92718514

https://vimeo.com/92718514
Apprentice
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎04-26-2014
Message 52 of 93 (2,154 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

You're right Peter, I should just bite the bullet. It's a bit of a pain having to check shots on a laptop with Catalyst. I'm not shooting much 4K, but it's certainly saved me on a couple of occasions. I just bought an Odyssey 7Q+ so it would be nice to dfeliver ProRes from that to some clients.

F5 Owner
Melbourne, Australia
www.2roadfilms.com.au
Specialist
Posts: 40
Registered: ‎09-03-2013
Message 53 of 93 (2,131 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

I think the upgrade path has been remarkable and in many cases exceeded my expectations. The 4K internal was amazing, and well worth the price IMHO. Other features helped give us "new" cameras essentially. Thanks Sony!
 
So a modest V6 upgrade round is ok with me, looking forward to what V7 will bring. I see no sign that Sony is backing off support for the F5/F55. I get the sense that upgrades rather than new models are planned for the foreseeable future (which is remarkable).
 
BUT to be at this stage with basic essentuial functional problems not fixed -- really mistakes not corrected, is hugely problematic to those making a living wiht these Sony cameras. No LUT's on playback, the highlight grid problem and such is really dissapointing and a daily challange to working pros that love and beleive in Sony products.
 
Still the best cameras around however. While less expensive cameras are getting more competitive from a price stanndpoint, the F5 and F55 still dominate in terms of functional capabilty. Nothing beats the range of what these cameras can do.
Expert
Posts: 245
Registered: ‎03-05-2013
Message 54 of 93 (2,080 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

Point is, if we have to wait for version update#7, we'll have an almost 3 year old camera that should have had  all those functions after max 6 months. Version 5 came out in dec 2014, v6 in june 2015...

It's not that we're asking/expecting miracle functions, but functions that are normal on other camera's. And if it's not possible to have those functions due to technical limitations of the camera, please communicate Sony (Japan).

Expert
Posts: 305
Registered: ‎11-19-2012
Message 55 of 93 (2,037 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

[ Edited ]

The F5/F55 may be at the limits of its technical ability. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new single F-series camera fusing the F5 and F55 being announced at NAB 2016, with the FS7 becoming the current F5-level, and the new unnamed F-camera taking the F55 mantle.  There will be only one camera which is what I always said should have happened with the F5/55.  Just soothsaying....

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
www.php.com.au
https://vimeo.com/92718514

https://vimeo.com/92718514
Expert
Posts: 369
Registered: ‎01-21-2014
Message 56 of 93 (1,933 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

Which is how they should have marketed the F series in the first place!!

One camera with an option sheet. Rolling or Global, Internal 4k or not, high speed or not. If they can logistically migrate to one sensor for this unnamed replacement camera, that would be best. And an upgrade path of course for existing users. And no more secret ****** that is built in but not turned on. 4k should have been free and F55 owners really did deserve a bone after all the F5 FS7 stuff that came to being. Being up front goes a long way as opposed to be a sneaky Peaky Blinder.

 

But I wouldn't throw any more money their way with out changes happening first. Changes that prove they want to have a bi-directional conversation with end users, rental houses, etc.

 

As an end user it is very important to know about your gear. It's very important that even a big super corp like Sony should be able to implement a proper channel for communications. It's easy, someone up top send a ****** memo out making it official. At least this takes the heat off Peter and Ian here who have had to fend our requests. Even if Peter and Ian were the conduits to the people that should get the info. We have no clue what Sony is doing. It's like it's one big secret deal about something that doesn't require being treated like one big secret. Once the camera is release, the whole secret thing is dead. THEN the marketing and user experience should take precedence.

 

We don't even know if we've maxed out the limitations of what the cameras can do, Sony wont tell us. Big secret. Like not telling us makes the competition think they are saving it for v8 release. Yeah right!

 

We don't even know if Sony will entertain board swap upgrades to the initial F5/F55 cameras. Sony wont say. Or it's a secret. Like others have said, it has been a few years now and like any business, camera owners plan on new purchases way ahead of time. And if Sony likes keeping all this stuff secret with the total lack of communication, why would a user feel obligated based on rumored cameras, rumored support, rumored dialog. When key board members take their business elsewhere, who will be trouble shooting now? Not Sony. All the troubleshooting came from experienced users. Lose that, and the forum will be making a big ****** sound from everyone leaving.

 

Oh well, enough kicking the dead horse today... Smiley Happy

Expert
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎11-24-2012
Message 57 of 93 (1,923 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

Hehe, it feels like Sony went back to their old ways. After being temporarily forced to bring out the goody bag, talk to their customers, all out of fear of loosing us all to Red. Now that they have re-established the "F" base back, the urgent need to be out and interact is gone. Welcome back to the 90's when there was zero communication and Sony marketing department ran the show. 

Jiri Bakala
Ascent Films Inc.
250-212-1435
www.ascentfilms.com
Enthusiast
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎06-01-2015
Message 58 of 93 (1,896 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

[ Edited ]

I think market share has a much bigger impact on Sony decisions than our professional end user experiences on this forum. And like Jiri says, now that the Red threat has been averted with the F5 and F55, the urgent need to be out and interact may indeed be gone.

 

Peter c.s. are in a difficult position in between very dedicated and knowledgable end users on this forum and their Sony bosses, who are more likely focused on the big scheme of things. If Sony is listening to clients at all, it's more likely the big volume buyers and not us.

 

Just speculating, but this might explain why codec stuff (that has to do with workflow options at the big clients and with the specs war with Arri, Red and Canon) seems to have more priority than the (most likely simple to implement) centre crop shortcut that will never reach the agenda of a boardroom meeting.

 

So, on the positive side, if Peter c.s. do manage to squeeze some of our small user requests into a firmware release maybe we should be very happy about the miracle that just happened...

www.cinetic.nl
Expert
Posts: 2,503
Registered: ‎11-21-2012
Message 59 of 93 (1,886 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

I fully agree with the viewpoint that the upgrades we have had to date are fantastic and well exceed what was originally laid out when the camera was released. This is of course really great. I'm sure no one here is denying that these are great cameras!

 

However, I also agree that this doesn't change the fact that it's frankly unacceptable that certain long standing issues have not been addressed whether in a fix, or even public acknowledgement.

 

On the topic of addressing our frustration at Peter as well as Sony, well, unfortunately I feel it’s somewhat fair to feel some frustration towards Peter. This is because he is a senior position, and also the most common Sony face on the F5/55 forum, and it feels like he keeps offering us broken promises including the promise of better engagement with us, a prominent sector of the user base of one of Sony’s flagship products.

 

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/ProRes-And-RAW-Together/m-p/495764#M26975

PeterC - 21-03-2015 01:15 PM

“we are looking into it. I will report back about this when I can”

 

- no response.

 

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/Forum-structure-suggestion-request/m-p/477247#M25065

PeterC - 29-12-2014 11:21 PM

“we are going to make changes to this forum in the new year.”

 

- hmm....

 

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/S-C-L-Z-1-8-X-1-4-0-AUTO-FOCUS-V5-0/m-p/477244#M25064

PeterC - 29-12-2014 11:19 PM

“Will check about this when the engineering team is back from holiday break and let you know”

 

- no reply.

 

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/NEW-3D-LUT-s-for-F55-and-F65/m-p/477230#M25059

PeterC - 29-12-2014 10:57 PM

“we are looking to generate new LUT's specific to the F5 in the New Year”

 

- what happened to this then?

 

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/F55-Sensor-Grid-Artifacts/m-p/226353#M8308

PeterC - 31-10-2013 05:56 PM

“We are investigating this and will respond when we have more information back from engineering”

 

- nothing.

 

Yes, much of the problem might be to do with the higher level corporate structure in Japan, but Sony cinema/broadcast have so many key people in the UK and USA too, and it feels like they have no power or time or maybe interest to help us out. That is wrong, and it should not be like that. The Sony Creative Software team making Catalyst seem much better at engaging with users and listening to their feedback. Why can’t the hardware division be like that too?

 

The important thing to remember as well is that SO many of the features requested by users (as per the survey of 293 users of the F5/55) are not in fact major new features that may (or may not) require new hardware, or are beyond the capability of existing processors. Sure, there are many things we would love to have (and hopefully in the future new processing boards can be added to allow this), but yes, in terms of major features there is only so much it is right and fair to hope for from a camera that was released in 2012.

 

Obviously the MLUT for S&Q/Playback situation is a big issue, and Sony’s (rather than user speculation) silence on this matter is deafening. As is the concern of things like Sensor Grid Artefacts, auto-focus for the SCL zoom lens, lack of False Color in Slog3, Pulldown for 23.98p/24p on HDMI out etc etc.

 

However the reality is that many of the features users asked for are actually bug fixes or things which should, in theory, be small changes to the UI/menu structure etc.

 

All of these things were popular in the survey, all of which would make the camera much better to use, none of which should (in theory) be difficult to implement, none of which should require additional processing power, and none of which have been commented on by Sony:

 

  • IRE% numbers on Waveform/Vectorscope display axis
  • Ability to make Waveform/Vectorscope full-screen
  • Pressing the "View" SUB menu button should automatically bring up the playback thumbnails. From here, pressing any of the other three SUB menu buttons should automatically hide the thumbnails
  • Ability to set 2K Center Crop as an assignable button (even if it means a few seconds delay)
  • Allow "Spare" on the EVF to be used as an assignable button
  • A menu option to disable the "are you sure" / "execute” messages
  • A "reset" button to the clip counter menu (to reset it back to 0001 without having to scroll each number back down to 0)
  • Anamorphic desqueeze in EVF when in XAVC or SR mode (rather than just RAW)
  • Ability to change the name of user loaded LUTS in camera
  • Option to have markers (such as aspect marker) displayed during playback
  • Ability to disable unused audio channels in-camera (so only two are record when audio is analogue or 4 if AES/EBU, rather than the current 8 (most of which are empty)

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again... Sony, we (the users of one of your flagship products) really want to help you to help us! Please engage with us more! Otherwise you end up with disheartened and jaded users who will turn their eye elsewhere.

 

I suggested to Sony USA that they host a Google Hangout type event to gather user feedback.... a representative said it was a great idea and apparently it was discussed in a meeting. I wonder what came of that idea?

Highlighted
Expert
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎09-27-2013
Message 60 of 93 (1,710 Views)

Re: NEW Version 6 Firmware F5 and F55

You gat it all right Videosoul.
Thanks
JG Leynaud
www.jgleynaud.com

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