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Enthusiast
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎06-20-2013
Message 1 of 24 (15,476 Views)
Accepted Solution

PMW 200 cinematic look profile

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, first professional camera after having a pdp 150p. Which is a excellent camera, functionality wise pmw 200 is a lot higher spec than the 150p.
Im trying to shoot cinematic style, I've got a few questions firstly there is no setting to set 1080p 24fps in PAL only in NTSC why? Do I set 1/48 for shutter speed? Do u know of any profiles I can set that will give a film look. I know the sensor size is small to give shallow depth of field compared to super 35mm. Anything else I need to consider?

Thanks
Moderator
Posts: 451
Registered: ‎11-20-2012
Message 2 of 24 (15,447 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

It is common to only see 24p mode on NTSC models or in NTSC operational modes. in PAL mode 25p offers a nearly equivalent low-frame-rate look. In HD this is not really an issue as many HD cameras offer a full complement of frame rates including 23.98, 25, 30, 60.. You aren't really 'switching the camera into NTSC' so much as changing the regional setup to enable the choice of 23.98. Hope this helps..

 

 

Specialist
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎02-03-2013
Message 3 of 24 (15,441 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

Regarding the second part of your question, there is a series on Sony's VideOn site called "Shoot Like a Pro" which may address some of your questions about getting a film look, even with a smaller sensor camera .  

 

Here is the link: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/videoChannelSearchResults.do?submit.x=0&submit.y=0&refinecat=&srchTer...

 

 

 

 

Expert
Posts: 1,439
Registered: ‎11-20-2012
Message 4 of 24 (15,443 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

As Ian has said, it would be redundant and unnecesary to have 24P options for both PAL and NTSC because they would essentially be identical recording modes.   In fact, no professional camcorder that I am aware of has ever offered 24P PAL, so there's nothing unusual here with the PMW-200.

 

You might find this video I produced for Sony about recording formats of interest:

https://vimeo.com/52258718

 

1/48th shutter speed is usually considered the recommended speed for 24P.  However, I prefer to shoot at 1/60 to reduce motion blur, but that is a personal choice.  You should do your own testing and see what you prefer.

 

You may have simply made a typo in your question, but just to be sure you understand about sensor size, the smaller 1/2" sensors of the PMW-200 don't give you shallower depth of field than super-35mm -- just the opposite.  You will find it more challenging to achieve shallow depth of field with the PMW-200.

 

In my opinion, Picture Profiles have very little impact on creating a "film look".  If you choose 24P and minimize the depth of field as best you can, you're well on your way to obtaining a cinematic feel.  But that is not to say profiles are not important.  The paint settings that make up a picture profile are vitally important for color saturation, sharpness, black levels, and most importantly -- highlight handling.   But you also need to have a good understanding of how to expose the camera and set the white balance if you want great results.  In other words, there is no magical recipe of profiles settings that is going to do the job.  It takes manual effort and knowledge of the camera to get a good "film look".

 

 

I hope that helps you started off on the right foot. If you'd like more information on some of things I've mentioned, please check out my 3-hour training video on the PMW-200.  It's available on DVD or pay-per-view streaming.

 

http://www.vortexmedia.com/DVD_PMW200.html

 

 

------------------------------------------
Doug Jensen, Vortex Media

In-depth Training Videos and Books for the FS7, FS5, Z150 and F55 camcorders

Enthusiast
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎06-20-2013
Message 5 of 24 (15,406 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

 

 

 

Hi IanCook,

 

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

I'm a newbie to this camera and the professional world so please be easy on me.

 

Please don't laugh:- You know it took me a day to find the white balance button on the PMW 200. As in the manual it doesn't exactly show you where the button is and I was fumbling around with the two settings- preset 1 & 2 and I thought Sony had missed something. It was only when I looked at the front I saw the button. Smiley Embarassed 

 

I don't understand what you are saying about-

 

"You aren't really 'switching the camera into NTSC' so much as changing the regional setup to enable the choice of 23.98"

 

Does that mean the camera stays in PAL mode when you switch to 1080 NTSC 23.98? If this is the case what happens when you bring it into say Adobe Premier are you in PAL or NTSC, when you start editing. How would you know what region (PAL / NTSC) your outputing to DVD?

 

Plus is 23.98 Hz a television rate and 24 Hz a film rate.

 

Cheers

 

 

Enthusiast
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎06-20-2013
Message 6 of 24 (15,402 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

Hi CrazyDuck,

 

Thanks for the pointer.

 

I discovered that site just after I bought the PMW 200, it's very good that Sony has produced something like this. It just gives you an overview a 'taster'. They should produce some detailed DVDs video etc for sale for folk like me just starting off.

Specialist
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎02-03-2013
Message 7 of 24 (15,397 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

I'm glad you found some value in the Sony videos.  Hopefully, we'll be creating more soon.

 

Doug Jensen's Vortex Media PMW-200 training video, as well as the other topics he covers, go into great detail on how to accomplish big things with a small camera.  There are some free chapters you can check out on the Vortex Media site.  Certainly worth a look.  

Moderator
Posts: 451
Registered: ‎11-20-2012
Message 8 of 24 (15,394 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

re:

 

"You aren't really 'switching the camera into NTSC' so much as changing the regional setup to enable the choice of 23.98"

 

All this means is that you have to set the region on the camera to switch between 'NTSC' and 'PAL' frame rates. If you set it to 'NTSC Region' you will see 24, 30 and 60; if you set it to 'PAL Region' you will see 25 and 50. Whichever frame rate you select is the frame rate you are recording in. When you bring it into an editor you select the sequence template for whatever frame rate and frame size you are working in. PAL/NTSC designations are not really as relevant in the HD world as they are in the SD world. In the HD world 25 and 50 are just additional choices from among the many we have on most recording devices. Most SD devices are strictly 25/50 (PAL) or 30/60 (NTSC). Hope this helps..

 

Cheers-

 

 

Enthusiast
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎06-20-2013
Message 9 of 24 (15,389 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

Hi DougJensen,

 

Thanks for getting back.

 

I've watched all the ones you've made for Sony on Youtube. I'm going to buy the PMW 200 instructional video you have produced it looks very informative. But what if I have a question and what if there is anything that you haven't covered that I would like to know. Can I shout?

 

"1/48th shutter speed is usually considered the recommended speed for 24P.  However, I prefer to shoot at 1/60 to reduce motion blur, but that is a personal choice.  "

 

Yeah I noticed some blur, when I tried out the 24P & 1/48. If you shoot at 1/60, in the editing stage how do you bring it back to 1/48th or do you just deliver with 1/60th? Just wondering if you look at commercial films on blu ray some of them are shot 24P, if they are when you load them into your blu ray player the 24P light illuminates. This will not happen if you shoot at 1/60 or is this something unrelated?

 

The complex issue of making even a short film has so many factors, likes of having lighting consistent within each scene, getting the correct angle, using the correct stand- tripod or dolly or crane. Then there are things like getting right talent, location... The list goes on as you know yourself. Currently I'm just getting my head around this camera to see what it can do. It was a replacement to my PDP- 150P, right now I can say there was too much hype about this camera when it was released. As I knew not much about which one to buy I read some reviews and tried to get hands on with this camera unfortunately couldn't do so for a while as my local dealer never had it. When I did get hands on it was only for 20 minutes or so. I made a decision within that period of time. I'm not impressed so far, maybe I will be once I start getting to know its full functionality and what it can produce compared to the 150p. Yes, I know it does HD 422, but it doesn't mean anything to me at the moment, it is only when I start shooting I can compare like for like I can say yeah or Nah. Yes I know it's a lot of money to pay for a camera, but there aren't any professional magazines that compare professional camera or do test like car magazines. I know magazines aren't something to go by but they do give a little insight into the product, the rest is up to the purchaser.

 

The shallow depth of field was a typo, likes of super 35mm are better at achieving this than the pmw 200. On this subject I would love a Sony F65 film camera. Instead I'm look at the Blackmagic Cinema Pocket and the Blackmagic Cinema 4K camera with some good lens will be able to get that cinematic look and shallow depth of field.

 

I've always wondered by Sony haven't went for a 35mm sensor for their professional cameras, instead of going for a super 35mm which is smaller in size. If they did go for 3 35mm sensors- each one for red, green, blue. That would be one ****** of a camera don’t you think.

Expert
Posts: 1,439
Registered: ‎11-20-2012
Message 10 of 24 (15,363 Views)

Re: PMW 200 cinematic look profile

Hi Asimotto,

 

I am always happy to answer a few questions from people who have ordered one of my training DVDs and still need some clarification, but please don't get the idea that I will be able to spend a lot of time doing one-on-one training.  Clients hire me for that! :-)

 

Your last post has a number of wrong assumptions and misinformation that would take too long to correct and explain -- and that would just lead to more questions -- so I'm not even going to try.  My advice is to slow down and focus on learning the PMW-200 itself and not worry to much about other cameras, acccessories, or the technical reasons why some settings are recommended over others.  In my opinion you are getting ahead of yourself.  Read the operation manual cover to cover or perhaps watch my 3-hour training DVD, and then try putting into practice what you have learned.  Soon it will all start to make sense and you'll find that many of the other things you are wondering about don't matter and actually interfere with mastering the camera and getting great results on-screen.

 

Good luck.

------------------------------------------
Doug Jensen, Vortex Media

In-depth Training Videos and Books for the FS7, FS5, Z150 and F55 camcorders

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